Ep 12: Hope After Heartbreak with Rachell Dumas

[00:00:12] To the Nurse Rosas INsights podcast, I'm your host, Rosa Hart, and today my guest is the founder of the non-profit A Light After Nine, Rachelle Dumas. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:00:25] Thank you for having me, Rosa. Thank you for pronouncing my name correctly.

[00:00:30] You're welcome. I did practice quite a bit.

[00:00:33] You did.

[00:00:34] Yeah, so those New Orleans people and their French influence. Unfortunately, I took German in high school.

[00:00:41] Wow.

[00:00:41] So, I've got to really practice because that is not the same kind of pronunciation at all.

[00:00:47] I'm impressed though.

[00:00:48] No. So, tell us about A Light After Nine and what inspired you to create your own non-profit?

[00:00:58] Absolutely. So, I've had a pretty traumatic pregnancy journey. I was starting in 2018 while I first lost.

[00:01:05] It was an early law. The OBGYN told me that I would go on to have a smooth pregnancy journey because it's just a part of the journey.

[00:01:14] And that was not true at all.

[00:01:16] I got pregnant again in 2020 with twins. I lost the first one and was told I had banishing twin syndrome.

[00:01:23] And then I lost the second one the day of my gender reveal. I went to the bathroom and the baby just fell out of me.

[00:01:35] Yeah, that commenced a very traumatic, like I said, pregnancy journey with loss after loss, a lot of early losses.

[00:01:42] In 2021, I started to see a reproductive endocrinologist, a reproductive geneticist, and they helped me get past the first trimester again by prescribing different hormones and just keeping up with me every week.

[00:01:57] A lot of office visits.

[00:01:59] I was also told that I had cervical insufficiency, which is that my cervix is too weak to hold a baby.

[00:02:07] So, once the baby gets heavy enough, my cervix will open and the baby will fall out.

[00:02:11] So, the cure to that is a cerclage, which is a suture around a cervix to keep it in.

[00:02:16] I would get that 13 weeks if I could make it that far.

[00:02:19] In 2021, I did make it that far. I got the surgery. Unfortunately, it failed.

[00:02:25] I learned that at my 20-week appointment, seven weeks later after getting the procedure.

[00:02:30] And I flew to Texas to try to save that baby.

[00:02:34] The surgeon flew me out and said he could do a transabdominal cerclage above that cerclage.

[00:02:39] He did have a history of saving pregnancies that way and saved twins at 20 weeks, and I was very hopeful.

[00:02:45] When I got out of the OR, I was surrounded by healthcare professionals cheering me on saying we made it and we were pregnant.

[00:02:53] Unfortunately, I went into labor.

[00:02:55] And I labored for 30 hours despite of all the medications that they gave me.

[00:03:00] My water broke and I had to go back to the OR and deliver that baby.

[00:03:05] And I lost that baby at 20, almost 21 weeks.

[00:03:10] The doctor promised to bring me back to Texas and put that cerclage back in out of pregnancy.

[00:03:16] Fully funded. And he did stay true to his birth that November.

[00:03:20] Brought me back to the cerclage in.

[00:03:23] I had some losses in between, early losses.

[00:03:25] But May 2022, I was pregnant again.

[00:03:29] I saw a reproductive endocrinologist.

[00:03:31] Second trimester graduated to the maternal fetal specialist.

[00:03:35] That cerclage held up.

[00:03:37] And December 2022, I gave birth to my first baby.

[00:03:41] My 10th baby was there, who is now about to be 20.

[00:03:45] I'm sorry, two years old.

[00:03:48] Next month.

[00:03:49] He's 20 something months.

[00:03:52] Right.

[00:03:53] Well, he'll be 24 months.

[00:03:54] Yeah.

[00:03:55] Next month.

[00:03:56] And that journey really inspired me to help other women and families and birthers who are

[00:04:03] going through this struggle to prevent them from having the same struggles that I had.

[00:04:08] I felt like I had enough forever.

[00:04:11] You know, and I learned so much during that time.

[00:04:14] And I'm, I accumulated so many resources and connections that I was confident to start a nonprofit after I rested for a year.

[00:04:23] As you can imagine, I would have some rest sometime.

[00:04:26] Oh my.

[00:04:27] Um, but I started this nonprofit so I can help other moms and birthers and family find resources for mental health grants because it's expensive.

[00:04:36] The, the financial implications last longer than a pregnancy.

[00:04:40] I also helped them find doctors and specialists that I couldn't find on my own, even being a registered nurse.

[00:04:46] Um, I helped them with education.

[00:04:48] I couldn't imagine coming in, not in the healthcare field.

[00:04:51] I was in the healthcare field and still didn't know a lot of the things that I wish I could have known to advocate for myself.

[00:04:57] And then we also teach them how to advocate for themselves.

[00:05:00] So that's a lot of the nine.

[00:05:02] That's my other baby, baby number 11.

[00:05:03] Um, and I'm so proud of it and I'm changing lives and I can, I hope to only change more.

[00:05:18] So we're still in this infancy.

[00:05:21] Um, we're still in the startup phase.

[00:05:23] It's only been a few months.

[00:05:24] Um, right now we've been working with, uh, individuals and also creating a lot of partnerships, uh, at this point.

[00:05:32] So it's been a lot of work that I've done in the last few months.

[00:05:36] Yeah, definitely.

[00:05:38] Are there any key partners that you'd like to share in case that might be like nationally available that you'd like to just give a shout out to in case someone's listening in another part of the country and you just want them to know that those things are out there?

[00:05:52] Absolutely.

[00:05:53] So Martha Dimes, I really want to shout out Tamara and Martha Dimes for the, um, Georgia Tapa.

[00:05:58] She's amazing.

[00:05:59] And, and just so willing to help out any type of way with all things maternal care.

[00:06:04] Um, I'm in the process of making partnerships with PSI.

[00:06:08] Um, I just had a conversation last night with a black women wellness center and, um, I'm working with doula being and shout out to all the amazing doulas out there.

[00:06:18] It's such an underused service, especially when it comes to, uh, pregnancy law and you guys are amazing.

[00:06:27] So, so many people I've come across and I hate that I'm forgetting everybody right now that you asked me.

[00:06:33] That's okay.

[00:06:34] But it's so many people are the melanin initiative with Dr. Kim.

[00:06:39] She's been amazing and, uh, connecting me with so many people.

[00:06:42] So, so many people, I can't even name everybody.

[00:06:46] Well, that's good.

[00:06:47] That gives people a reason to want to, you know, connect with you to be able to connect with your network.

[00:06:54] Right?

[00:06:55] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:56] So before, um, we get to the billion dollar question, let's go ahead and talk about where can people connect with you if they are a mom or someone who wants to be a mom and wants to be able to learn from you.

[00:07:11] Or if there's someone who wants to partner with you, what's the best way to get in touch with you right now as you get started?

[00:07:18] Absolutely.

[00:07:18] All avenues.

[00:07:19] You can go to our website at lightafternoon.org.

[00:07:22] You can call us.

[00:07:24] You can DM us on social media.

[00:07:27] We're on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn.

[00:07:30] You can send us a message.

[00:07:32] Um, you can also send an email to us and we're very responsive.

[00:07:37] So any avenue, uh, that you want to choose, you can reach out to us.

[00:07:42] And I wanted to make us very accessible because during a pregnancy journey, you have so much going on.

[00:07:47] I don't need you to be, uh, bottled down with how I'm going to find resources.

[00:07:52] We're that one-stop shop to help you help yourself.

[00:07:55] Yeah, that is awesome.

[00:07:57] I really love that.

[00:07:58] And, um, I did have a, um, the engagement.

[00:08:02] Pretty scary miscarriage myself.

[00:08:05] And I really appreciate that you're making this available.

[00:08:10] I thankfully had, you know, some really supportive family, but it was really interesting to learn like the, the stigma around talking about miscarriage.

[00:08:22] And then even, I would say there's not as much stigma that I encountered now.

[00:08:28] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:28] Um, let's see, I guess when this happened, that was like nine years ago.

[00:08:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:34] And so I wouldn't say it's like they, anybody would give you a hard time necessarily for talking about it or feeling bad.

[00:08:44] Um, it seemed like it was more like people just didn't know what to say.

[00:08:49] Yeah.

[00:08:49] And so it was uncomfortable to just bring it up because like, I know my mom had talked about people sharing like they felt like a failure or something.

[00:09:03] If they had a miscarriage and weren't able to carry the term and things like that.

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:08] I didn't feel that way.

[00:09:10] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:11] Thankfully, um, it was just a freak accident kind of thing.

[00:09:15] But, um, I almost didn't make it.

[00:09:18] And so I was just thankful to survive.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:23] It was, I saw the difficulty in people's faces not knowing what to say, right?

[00:09:29] Yeah.

[00:09:30] Because they weren't sure how I was going to react, right?

[00:09:33] They would be wanting to comfort me, but then say like, I don't know if I should even bring it up.

[00:09:39] Is she going to break down and cry?

[00:09:41] Because especially after you give birth, after you have a miscarriage, there's hormones as well, right?

[00:09:47] Where we're very emotionally labile as well, contributing to all of the understandable feelings that go with that.

[00:09:57] And so is there any advice that you would share with someone as far as like, I know somebody who had a miscarriage.

[00:10:06] What would you say is a good way they could offer support?

[00:10:11] That's an amazing question.

[00:10:13] And I think that is so under discussed and so important, especially like you said, it's such a emotion, you know, emotionally volatile and not volatile, but labile.

[00:10:26] Yeah.

[00:10:26] Yeah.

[00:10:26] The emotions can be volatile.

[00:10:29] There's up and down all over the place.

[00:10:31] Yeah.

[00:10:31] Yeah.

[00:10:32] And it's hormones and it's because it's grief.

[00:10:35] It's grief.

[00:10:37] It's grief.

[00:10:37] So it's funny.

[00:10:38] I just had a conversation with the owner of Dula Bean and she and I will be having a webinar next month talking about this because it's so many times that we were approached incorrectly.

[00:10:50] And a lot of times it's out of love.

[00:10:54] Most times it's out of love and caring and concern.

[00:10:57] But as the victim, so to speak, you kind of have to just, you know, eat that and just be like, okay, well, you know, justify, but it still hurts.

[00:11:07] So there are things that you can do.

[00:11:11] One, if you're a partner, especially partners are such a big part of the birthing process, especially during loss, but especially during a healthy birth.

[00:11:22] You're dependent upon, you're there, you know, you're, you're the wrong.

[00:11:28] And it's a lot.

[00:11:30] Get mental health resources.

[00:11:33] You know, reach out to therapists and counselors and talk to somebody and go through those emotions as well, because you can address other people's emotions and things they're going through if you don't address your own.

[00:11:45] And don't be shy about it and think you have to be thinking of harming yourself or anyone else in order to ask for help.

[00:11:53] It's not about an emergency situation.

[00:11:57] You don't want to let things get there, right?

[00:11:59] Just head it off and get your support, especially for those of us who are caregivers.

[00:12:04] That's something we're notorious for, right?

[00:12:07] As nurses, not taking care of ourselves because we're taking care of someone else.

[00:12:11] Right.

[00:12:12] And it's not selfish, though.

[00:12:14] We've got to fill up.

[00:12:17] It is.

[00:12:18] It's the same principle as if when you're on a flight, right?

[00:12:21] They say you put the oxygen on yourself first because you're, you're useless, essentially, if you're not taking care of yourself.

[00:12:28] So you have to put that oxygen on yourself first.

[00:12:30] You have to address your own biases and grief and trauma surrounding the losses and the journey and whatever, the role, the responsibility, all of it before you can help someone else.

[00:12:44] So I think that's just addressing your own mental health before you approach someone else is very important.

[00:12:50] Also having that open dialogue beforehand if you can.

[00:12:55] If you're someone like me who have recurrent losses, one of the things my friends did that I loved was them asking, if you have another loss, do you want us to bring it up?

[00:13:04] How do you want us to support you?

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:07] If you're pregnant, do you want us to celebrate?

[00:13:09] Right.

[00:13:10] What can we do?

[00:13:11] You know, what can we do?

[00:13:12] Ask that person those questions if possible.

[00:13:15] And I love to encourage couples that they should get couples counseling before this journey or some type of counseling before this journey because you never know what's going to happen and how it will impact you.

[00:13:27] So try to take those avenues and take advantage of those resources to kind of help facilitate those conversations.

[00:13:36] That's really good advice.

[00:13:37] So might be giving some hints here as to what your answer to the billion dollar question might be.

[00:13:47] But, Rachelle, if you were given a grant, and I know nonprofits are always applying for grants, right?

[00:13:53] Yes.

[00:13:54] Our favorite thing to do.

[00:13:55] Yeah, right?

[00:13:56] It's new funding.

[00:13:57] Your new favorite hobby.

[00:13:58] Yes.

[00:13:59] If you were given a grant for $1 billion, how would you like to see that used to strategically meet the needs that you see to have the most sustainable impact?

[00:14:10] So I'd be remiss to not acknowledge March of Dimes' latest report card.

[00:14:17] It's devastating.

[00:14:19] And it's the preterm birth.

[00:14:22] It's just so high.

[00:14:24] We have a D, F in some areas of the United States.

[00:14:29] There are so many things that we need to address to improve that grade.

[00:14:35] Is that in comparison to other countries?

[00:14:37] Is that in just comparison to a standard?

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:41] So they actually book it down in the United States and by state.

[00:14:46] The national average is a D minus, but certain states are compared to that.

[00:14:51] Like preterm birth nationally is like 10 point, a little over 10 percent.

[00:14:56] In Georgia, it's like 11.

[00:14:58] It's higher than the national average.

[00:15:01] So we have to address so many things.

[00:15:04] So with that billion dollars, one, I would address the maternal health desert.

[00:15:09] So the care has to be widespread for maternal health.

[00:15:14] We need comprehensive maternal health centers, especially in underserved rural areas.

[00:15:22] So if you have a mom or birther who has to travel two hours and they have a high-risk pregnancy,

[00:15:29] they may not make it.

[00:15:30] Them or the baby.

[00:15:32] That's unacceptable.

[00:15:33] We need to have maternal health comprehensive centers near everybody who is giving birth.

[00:15:41] You know, that should be a gift.

[00:15:43] You should be able to have access to care.

[00:15:45] And then we want to make sure we're training these providers in rural areas and in these underserved communities

[00:15:54] on high-risk pregnancies and how to care for them and have the appropriate specialties.

[00:15:59] So reproductive endocrinologists, geneticists, maternal fetal specialists, all of them should be available.

[00:16:06] So with that, we have the fun education, right?

[00:16:09] You know, it's not cheap.

[00:16:10] So making sure we have enough health care professionals, nurses and doctors, radiologists, all of it.

[00:16:17] We have to make sure that we're aiding in that fun.

[00:16:21] I do want to also start a birth fund, whether it's to fund education, fund mental health resources,

[00:16:28] so counseling session, because we know that it takes a mental toll on everybody involved.

[00:16:34] Mom, birther, support system, everybody.

[00:16:38] And it's not cheap.

[00:16:40] We want to help pay for medical bills.

[00:16:42] We want to help pay for babies' needs if, you know, they can't afford it.

[00:16:49] And then I also want to make sure we have enough funding for a decent amount of time off of work.

[00:16:57] Why are we going back to work after three months?

[00:17:01] The risk for hemorrhage is six months to a year.

[00:17:03] Three months would be the luxurious end, wouldn't you say?

[00:17:07] The 12 weeks?

[00:17:10] Don't we both know a whole lot of people who go back to work after six or eight weeks?

[00:17:15] Oh, I know two weeks.

[00:17:17] I know people that went through two weeks.

[00:17:19] For sure.

[00:17:19] But I would say, like, there are so many that you would think that they would have benefits that would at least cover up to 12 weeks,

[00:17:27] but it requires you to take vacation time.

[00:17:29] And if you had to use any of that vacation time in the preparation for birth process, you don't have it.

[00:17:37] Right.

[00:17:38] Or it has to be used for, like, the first two weeks of your leave, and then you have none after that.

[00:17:46] Then that's it.

[00:17:47] And what if you don't have that?

[00:17:48] What if you're like me who had to be on bed rest for most of the pregnancy, and then my pregnancy leave starts?

[00:17:57] How am I going to support myself?

[00:18:00] How am I going to eat?

[00:18:01] How am I going to feed my family?

[00:18:02] There's so many issues that comes along with a lack of funding for time off.

[00:18:09] And then even if you as the birther gets time off, what about your partner?

[00:18:16] I can't do this alone.

[00:18:17] God forbid I have, you know, postpartum depression or preeclampsia or any issues after the birth and I'm in the hospital.

[00:18:27] My partner doesn't even have time off, or if they do, it's a couple of weeks.

[00:18:32] You know, it's just unfair, unjust, and unsafe.

[00:18:37] Right.

[00:18:38] So.

[00:18:39] And it's not within the norms of other developed countries, even.

[00:18:43] Right.

[00:18:44] Right.

[00:18:44] You know.

[00:18:45] So.

[00:18:46] I don't know.

[00:18:47] It's so many layers, you know, to this.

[00:18:50] While we're putting plugs out here, can we also just, like, put something in here for somebody to create a standardized FMLA form.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:00] That can be filled out really easy with the extraction from the patient's record without a whole bunch of lines.

[00:19:07] Yes.

[00:19:08] Doctors throwing it from one to the other of, oh, it's not my job.

[00:19:11] It's your job.

[00:19:12] It's the endocrinologist.

[00:19:13] It's the PCP.

[00:19:15] It's the OBGYN.

[00:19:18] Right.

[00:19:18] Can somebody just fill it?

[00:19:19] And I don't say that with any disrespect to the providers who are extremely also overworked.

[00:19:25] And I'm saying, can someone develop this form that will fill itself out from the patient's record?

[00:19:30] Let's use some AI to make this process efficient.

[00:19:33] Because we don't need this person who's already so stressed by being pregnant and whether or not they have complications.

[00:19:40] Yes.

[00:19:41] Having all this rigmarole about how to fill out their FMLA paperwork that's only going to their job and not even get them paid.

[00:19:51] Right.

[00:19:52] Right.

[00:19:53] Right.

[00:19:53] That is such a good point.

[00:19:55] We have so much technology.

[00:19:56] You know, I went to the doctor.

[00:19:58] The doctor said this.

[00:19:59] He said or she said that I shouldn't be at work.

[00:20:03] It's not safe.

[00:20:05] Extract the information.

[00:20:06] It's already there.

[00:20:07] I already had the visit.

[00:20:08] You know.

[00:20:09] But not all FMLA paperwork is the same and it's not standardized.

[00:20:12] I really wish it was just for...

[00:20:15] Then it would be faster to fill it out if they all at least look the same.

[00:20:19] Right.

[00:20:20] Right.

[00:20:20] You know where the lines are to fill out.

[00:20:22] Right.

[00:20:23] It really should be...

[00:20:24] Instead of having to figure it out like a puzzle every time.

[00:20:27] Right.

[00:20:27] Right.

[00:20:28] It should be much easier, you know, for us to not only get the care that we need but to take the time off to have a safe journey as safe as possible.

[00:20:37] You know.

[00:20:38] We should be fighting after we get a diagnosis like potential threat of miscarriage, you know.

[00:20:44] Yeah.

[00:20:44] And miscarriage is dangerous.

[00:20:46] Let's just revisit the fact that most...

[00:20:49] It is.

[00:20:49] Like pregnancy giving birth is one of the most dangerous things that a woman can do for her own safety.

[00:20:57] Like I...

[00:20:58] I'm just a full transparency.

[00:21:00] I had to repeat the pediatrics and obese semester of nursing school because I didn't pass by one point the first time.

[00:21:08] So I had to learn a second time all over again.

[00:21:12] Every way you can die in childbirth or due to a complication during pregnancy, which did not make my next pregnancy very stress-free.

[00:21:22] But...

[00:21:23] Right.

[00:21:24] But it just goes to show like we have to take safety seriously in order to protect mothers during pregnancy to prevent those complications or at least recognize them when they're happening.

[00:21:38] So that they can have a good recovery.

[00:21:41] Right.

[00:21:42] I 100% agree.

[00:21:44] The last portion of the money, I would definitely use it.

[00:21:49] And I was just thinking about this today.

[00:21:51] We're so advanced.

[00:21:52] Our technology is so advanced.

[00:21:53] But we need to have a monitoring system at home where we can identify certain risks.

[00:22:00] Pre-ecampsia, possible bleeding risks, issues with the placenta, issues with kicking, like if the baby isn't moving at a certain time.

[00:22:09] We need to be able to identify these risks and have a centralization, whether it's at the local hospital or clinic, for somebody to monitor these things.

[00:22:17] So we could immediately address them and save women, also save babies as well.

[00:22:25] Are you aware of any like digital therapeutics companies that are already offering this service, like even on a small scale?

[00:22:31] I haven't.

[00:22:33] I know there are some companies who just offer general vital sign, blood sugar, glucose type monitoring systems that their doctors can also monitor.

[00:22:44] I haven't heard of those that could monitor maternal health issues or maternal trauma issues.

[00:22:54] Not to say they aren't out there.

[00:22:56] I just don't know.

[00:22:57] If they are, though, they need to reach out to you, right, Rachel?

[00:23:01] Please.

[00:23:01] Please reach out to me.

[00:23:02] I would love to collaborate.

[00:23:03] Because she wants to know you.

[00:23:05] Yes.

[00:23:06] Yes.

[00:23:06] This is a game changer.

[00:23:08] That's right.

[00:23:09] That would be incredible if it's already out there and just needs to be scaled up.

[00:23:12] The more we get together, the happier we'll be.

[00:23:15] Yes.

[00:23:16] Networking.

[00:23:16] Network.

[00:23:18] Well, I think that's amazing.

[00:23:20] Did we cover all of the pieces?

[00:23:21] I kept interrupting.

[00:23:23] No, I think we did.

[00:23:24] I think we did.

[00:23:25] Okay.

[00:23:26] Well, thank you so much for sharing your vision with us.

[00:23:30] Thank you so much for using your journey to help others.

[00:23:34] And while you are celebrating your own success with your 10th baby.

[00:23:41] So I hope that you have a wonderful, successful time building this nonprofit and are able to pay it forward to all these other moms out there.

[00:23:52] Absolutely.

[00:23:53] And partners of all kinds.

[00:23:55] Thank you so much, Rosa.

[00:23:57] And thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your experience.

[00:23:59] It's not easy to talk about at all.

[00:24:03] So I really want to thank you for your vulnerability and sharing that.

[00:24:06] Well, you too.

[00:24:08] Well, in building.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09] And you built a nonprofit around your own.

[00:24:12] Yeah.

[00:24:13] The least I can do is share mine once.

[00:24:16] Right?

[00:24:16] Yeah.

[00:24:16] So thank you for putting yourself out there.

[00:24:20] You're a treasure and a blessing.

[00:24:23] And remember, if you want to get connected, go to alightafternine.org or follow her on social media.

[00:24:31] I'll put it in the show notes.

[00:24:32] So you can just click to connect.

[00:24:34] And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Nurse Rosa's Insights podcast, you may be interested in more of them.

[00:24:42] So on this podcast, I interview healthcare stakeholders about what they see as solutions and how they want to meet the needs that they are seeing.

[00:24:56] Anybody can complain, but this is a place where we talk about ways to solve problems.

[00:25:02] So if you have an idea, feel free to reach out.

[00:25:04] And I will see you in the next episode.